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8:27 am
July 17, 2007
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Tavaner
Moderator
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I’ll post this league on a few sites today, I doubt we’ll have trouble filling out 16 teams. Once the league is filled we can figure out the drafts.
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10:32 am
July 17, 2007
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craphonso
Elite User
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Tavaner said:
16 team leagues don’t support three drafts.
Not sure if this information isn’t being read or is it being ignored?
Two random and one inverse draft order’s don’t appear to distribute the talent equitably in a 16 team league…and if I’m looking to join a league, why would I join a dynasty league where I’m potentially at a disadvantage right off the bat? (assuming we can agree on anything before Smitty has to help out)
If waivers aren’t executed until Wen. morning it isn’t a case of who gets to the puter first. I appreciate the strategy with using blind bidding, I can even see using units in trades, but after the initial few weeks of our first season, at least 5-6 teams are going to need some way to make their teams competitive.
Whatever strategies we employ should be balanced for everyone.
Any other suggestions/ideas/options (aside from one draft for all players)?
When we are talking about this is was in regards not too this years draft, but future drafts……..I must be having a mind freeze, but I don’t see the problem with this in the future.
As for this year, I guess I don’t see how 3 seperate randomly assigned draft orders wouldn’t be a fair way to go. I may be missing something here, by all means if there is a better way to go for the initial draft I am all ears. We could go one draft as Tav. said or I have to believe that 2 drafts would at least work. One seperate for rookies and one for the rest.
The waiver issue. If everybody is more comfortable with the regular waiver claim system that is fine. This is the last I will write about it, but the blind bid system is fair strategy for all teams and that is the point of it. It gives every team a chance to get any waiver player, but I digress it is settled, we’ll go with the basic system no problem.
Are we all thinking of having the drafts on this thread?
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12:45 pm
July 17, 2007
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Tavaner
Moderator
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I’m still talking initial drafts and I’ve re-read the posts, the one above is the first to mention next years drafts.
We usually have the drafts here, takes some time (not too much, everyone has been really good) but it’s part of contributing to the site.
If we do two drafts the inverse order works.
While I’ll go with the consensus, my concerns over randomized orders is parity and the league being viable in the long run.
As an example, using a 12 team model here is one way the drafts could go:
Team A = Off Pick 01 - Def Pick 10 - Rook Pick 08
Team B = Off Pick 02 - Def Pick 09 - Rook Pick 07
Team C = Off Pick 03 - Def Pick 11 - Rook Pick 06
Team D = Off Pick 04 - Def Pick 12 - Rook Pick 05
Team E = Off Pick 05 - Def Pick 04 - Rook Pick 12
Team F = Off Pick 06 - Def Pick 03 - Rook Pick 11
Team G = Off Pick 07 - Def Pick 02 - Rook Pick 10
Team H = Off Pick 08 - Def Pick 01 - Rook Pick 09
Team I = Off Pick 09 - Def Pick 08 - Rook Pick 01
Team J = Off Pick 10 - Def Pick 07 - Rook Pick 02
Team K = Off Pick 11 - Def Pick 06 - Rook Pick 03
Team L = Off Pick 12 - Def Pick 05 - Rook Pick 04
Each team has a top 4 pick in one of the drafts, a middle round pick in another, and selects in the lower third in one.
For 16 teams we need four drafts
( we could do separate six round rook off/def)
….and then to add more strategy (if we went to four) we could have a lottery…#1 gets to pick which team A-P draft slots they want…thoughts?
If all you guys are hot for the randomized drafting for the drafts, I’ll go with it, same with all the other stuff we’ve discussed. As it is, we’ll have eight more voices to include at some point. 
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12:48 pm
July 17, 2007
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Tavaner
Moderator
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Posted the link and info in other league message boards. Let’s see if we grow over the next few days.
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1:04 pm
July 17, 2007
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X
Moderator
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There is no real reason we have to do three or four drafts. We should do two drafts, the first could be a “regular” draft for all players including the IDPs but excluding any rookies, the second could be the rookie draft with an inverse order of the regular draft. Splitting it up too much may get really confusing.
As far as the waivers go, I’ve always used an inverse draft order from worst to first, ordered by record and then points. Waivers stay open until Thursday or Friday, it doesn’t matter all that much, and the players are dispersed. After that, it is first come first served for the remainder of that week until the games begin. The following week it starts all over again.
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2:41 pm
July 17, 2007
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SuperChiefs
Stud
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I’d be interested in joining the league.
I’m in late on some of these discussions, but I’ve read through the thread, so I’ll go ahead and throw in my initial two cents worth. And for what it is worth, I’ve been if FF for years - am commish in multiple leagues — and am experienced in almost any kind of league you can imagine — dynasty, auction, salary cap, deep keeper, shallow keeper, redraft, etc. So some comments:
First, looking at the IDP scoring that was posted earlier, it is very limited. Fantasy values on the defensive players will be extremely low under this scoring system. IDP becomes much more interesting when the fantasy value of those players are more meaningful.
Second, I’m in several leagues on Fleaflicker. They do a nice job. However there are a couple of serious limitations on that site when it comes to a league like this. First the scoring options are limited. Second, it does not support a blind bidding process for waivers. And third, it is very very limited in terms of options as far as how drafts are conducted — unless you do the drafts elsewhere and and then manually input the rosters. By far the best and most flexible site I’ve seen as far as hosting drafts and leagues is http://www.myfantasyleague.com.
Third, I like the blind bidding system for waivers. It is based on more than whoever happens to get to the computer first. And it requires more intelligent use of the waiver system because your use of that system is limited by the dollar limit and your use of that — kind of like an auction system for waivers. Spend all of your money on the front side for a one week wonder, and you are limited down the road.
Fourth, do not like the idea of separate drafts for offense and defense. One of the interesting things about an IDP league in the integration of the IDP players into the draft — when to pick them in relationship to the offensive players takes some talent. You eliminate that skill element if you have separate drafts.
Fifth, the question of a separate rookie draft is a little different. I din’t see that as essential, but I’m okay with it. If that were to be done, I would support the idea of having the rookie draft with a reverse order from the veteran draft. It would not balance the teams, but it might help provide some additional balance.
Sixth, I agree with one other posters observation that if the league is really going to be as deep as you are talking about, then the existence of one or two IR spots are unnecessary. We have both IR and taxi squad spots on one of the leagues that I commish, but it is more shallow than 40 to 45 players — which is huge. Which brings me to:
Seventh, if you are really serious about a roster this deep, I have two concerns. First, the waiver wire will become virtually meaningless. Second, although the goal may be to encourage trading, a team needing a particular player because of key injuries, etc, will be at the mercy of the other players because of the lack of any meaningful waiver wire options. The end result of a roster this deep, especially in this size of a league, may be to drive teams out of the league.
Just some thoughts to kick around.
SuperChiefs / John
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5:04 pm
July 17, 2007
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craphonso
Elite User
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Welcome SuperChiefs! I am relatively new to the site as well and hae found it to be one of the best around. Glad your interested in the league I think we can all make it into pretty fun/competative league.
1. I do not have as much experience in IDP as I do in most other formats so I will go with whatever the majority decides.
2. I checked out Fleaflicker and while it is free it does appear to have major limitations. Just a few I noticed are roster size max is 30 total. Scoring is not flexible. I’ve heard good things about the site you listed I personaly have not used it yet.
3. I agree with you on waivers, but will go with majority in the end.
4/5. I think 2 drafts with a seperate rookie draft would be fun but not essential. Also agreeing that the rookie draft could be in reverse order of the vet/IDP draft.
6. I think it was XYZ you are agreeing with on the IR spots. Maybe I am pushing the large rosters too much, I see both of your points.
7. I am in favor of large rosters and do think they promote trading, but I also see your point here. My thinking is it would indeed take a lot of bite out of the waiver process, I do admit that is part of the reason I am in favor of it. I jsut like the idea of a Dynasty League with a deep roster and keeping deep sleepers rather than playing the waiver wire game, but again if majority like smaller rosters I am fine with it. In my experience, and I admit most of it is not in league where everybody is active. There are always 2-5 teams that join a league for the draft and that is all they care about and then they do not manage the team throughout the season. No matter what the rules are there always seen to be some indifferent owners. If they have a bad start to the season they do not care about waivers they do not care period. So many of the reasons to have a waiver system to favor weak starting teams and to keep interest in the league doesn’t seem to work, but that’s just me.
I just want a highly competative league and figure whoever signs up for this one will want the same, so if most people thin the way to accomplish that is through smaller rosters and an active waiver system cool!
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5:29 pm
July 17, 2007
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SuperChiefs
Stud
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Just a quick clarification. Not saying that a deeper roster is the wrong way to go. Just saying that we need to think it through and be aware of what that decision means in other areas including waiver wire and trading activity.
SuperChiefs / John
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9:48 pm
July 17, 2007
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HEMI
Stud
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I am interested in joining this dynasty league. I would rather it be a team defense league but I am down with IDP’S. I have been playing FF for 20+ years and run 2 leagues of my own. One I have been running for the last 12 years counting this upcoming season and have been in that league 21 seasons. I also run a dynasty league that is in the second year. I am active like to talk trade and am very visible on the AOL IM (reece96). Shoot me a line tonight if you like. I want in and am ready to draft or help with anything you need.
Hemi
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9:57 pm
July 17, 2007
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X
Moderator
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| posts 6205 |
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1. Tavaner
2. Hambone
3. James00_33
4. XYZMan
5. Weekend Warriors
6. craphonso
7. kroz42
8. basher
9. SuperChiefs
10. HEMI
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
6 more to go!!
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10:02 pm
July 17, 2007
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HEMI
Stud
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Sweet glad to be a part of this. Couple of questions. Is this going to be IDP or team defense? Where is the league site going to be held? Do most of you guys know each other? Who can I give my info from like my e-mail? I really hope this is a good active competitive league. Anyone else have AOL IM?
Hemi
Jeff
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10:16 pm
July 17, 2007
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X
Moderator
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Welcome HEMI!!
Many of the fine details of the league will be decided as a group once everyone is on board, we still need six teams, hopefully that will happen in a few days. Most of us chat on the boards, it’s a pretty casual, informative and super active forum… which all means this will be a very competitive league. Most of us are super-extreme fantasy players in multiple leagues and formats.
The draft(s) will take place right in this thread and past leagues have been run through FleaFlicker… doesn’t mean this one will, but that is what has happened in the past.
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10:21 pm
July 17, 2007
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HEMI
Stud
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Alright cool I will be good to go on drafting except on July 27, 28, 29th. I am outa town but I can leave a cell #1 for someone to call I can give a pick that way. I am dedicated like that. We can cross that bridge when we get there. I hope to get the ball rolling soon and be drafting!
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10:27 pm
July 17, 2007
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craphonso
Elite User
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welcome aboard Hemi,
We are still clarifying many of the details as you can see by looking through this thread, add your thoughts. I believe most of us only know each other from posting on this site. The majority seems to like IDP so it looks like that is the way we will go. Site yet to be determined. Pretty much everyone who has signed up for the league so far is pretty active so I think you will be happy with the league. One of the reasons I joined the extremers was after I read through the 2 previous drafts that were held on the “create a thread for your league” forum. Good stuff to look back on whenever you have time.
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10:44 pm
July 17, 2007
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HEMI
Stud
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Alright here is my take on the defense thing. I have played IDP’S and was not very fond of it. I am game if we go that way for sure. I just hope if we go IDP that we get a 70/30 split or more in favor of the Offense. Having the defense count for more then 30% of the scoring is to much. How many starting players are we looking at on the defensive side of the ball. The league I played in was 2-2-2 flex
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We could consider doing team defense for this year with the intention of adding an IDP draft Next year. That would give people a chance to “ease” into some of this and not be overwhelmed.
Just a thought.
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11:06 pm
July 17, 2007
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HEMI
Stud
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I do not think anyone would be overwhelmed, atleast I hope not. I would hope everyone in this league could handle IDP’S. It is just not my thing, but I can do them no problem.
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11:09 pm
July 17, 2007
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HEMI
Stud
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I also think that there should be a separate draft for vets and rookies but if we do IDP’S they should be involved in both of them drafts.
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11:10 pm
July 17, 2007
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basher
Elite User
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Will go with whatever the majority wants, but I would also prefer doing team defense’s this year, as I’m still learning the ropes for IDP. But again, whatever we decide I’m cool with.
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11:19 pm
July 17, 2007
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HEMI
Stud
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Here is what the rules were in my IDP league from the past.
Defensive Linemen
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1 point per tackle
1 point for every 2 assisted tackles
5 points per sack
3 points per interception
1 point per forced fumble
2 points per fumble recovery
6 points per TD (including special teams)
1 point per 10 yards rushing
1 point per 10 yards receiving
2 points per 2-point conversion passed, rushed or received
-2 points for each fumble lost
4 points for a safety
*
Linebackers
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1 point per tackle
1 point for every 2 assisted tackles
3 points per sack
3 points per interception
1 point per forced fumble
2 points per fumble recovery
6 points per TD (including special teams)
1 point per 10 yards rushing
1 point per 10 yards receiving
2 points per 2-point conversion passed, rushed or received
-2 points for each fumble lost
4 points per safety
*
Defensive Backs
*
1 point per tackle
1 point for every 2 assisted tackles
3 points per sack
3 points per interception
1 point per forced fumble
2 points per fumble recovery
6 points per TD (including special teams)
1 point per 10 yards rushing
1 point per 10 yards receiving
2 points per 2-point conversion passed, rushed or received
-2 points for each fumble lost
4 points per safety
*
Just to give some guidelines but I am with you Basher I will vote no on IDP’S but I can ROCK with it if it is the majority.
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