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Fantasy Football Trade Breakdown: Dynasy Expert League

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UserPost

6:30 pm
March 30, 2009


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7821

Trading Larry Johnson

We recently wrote an article called What To Do With Larry Johnson In 2009 — The article basically advises dynasty owners to trade the runner now while there is still time. For more on why Johnson is such a risky player to hold onto, read the article, then jump back to this one, where we breakdown a trade that we just pulled off involving Johnson.

Now, trading Johnson isn’t easy right now — With a potential upcoming NFL suspension hanging over his head, and with a possible release on the way, or worse (Johnson staying in KC angry and upset), the only way to trade L.J. is to make a lateral move. What does this mean? Well, because no one is going to give you an elite talent in exchange for Johnson, you have to get creative and go after another risky player, but one that you believe in. For example, I firmly believe in both Joseph Addai and Braylon Edwards in 2009. Their poor 2008 campaigns make both perfect buy-low candidates right now, but both are players we firmly believe in heading into 2009. This lateral move can be looked at like buying and selling stock. Addai and Edwards have similar value to L.J. on the market, but we see both players bouncing back in a major way in the fantasy value department in 2009. This was our first plan of attack, but as you will read below, both the Addai and Edwards owners turned down (or did not respond) to our trade proposals — This led us onto a different trade path, but first take a look at our pre-trade roster:

Our Line-Up Pre-Trade

Pos.
Starters
Team
QB1
Tony Romo
DAL
RB1
Adrian Peterson
MIN
RB2
Michael Turner
ATL
Flex
Larry Johnson
KC
WR1
Marques Colston
NO
WR2
Chad Ocho Cinco
CIN
TE1
Owen Daniels
HOU
K1
Nick Folk
DAL
DST
Cowboys
DAL
Bench: Chester Taylor, Lance Moore, Darren Sproles, Sage Rosenfels, Fred Jacksonmore

League: 2009 FFX Dynasty Expert League

Rosters: View

Line-Up: 1QB, 2RBs, 2WRs, 1Flex, 1DST, 1K

Scoring: View

(Non-PPR, Standard-Based, but with all passing TDs counting as 6 points and there is bonus scoring of 5 points for every 100 yards rushing and every 85 receiving. Passing bonuses start at 5 points at 300 and 2 points per 100 after)

Again, as stated above, our first plan of attack was to buy-low on Edwards or Addai, but both owners said no/did not respond. The next plan of attack for us was to trade Johnson and Chad Ocho Cinco together for one better running back… this would force Lance Moore into our starting line-up, but it would upgrade our flex option significantly. Instead, we tried something else. The offer:

The Offer:

Rotoworld received:
Turner, Michael ATL RB
Johnson, Larry KCC RB
Moore, Lance NOS WR
Round 1, Pick 9 Rookie Pick

Fantasy Football Xtreme received:
Gore, Frank SF RB
Marshall, Brandon DEN WR
Washington, Nate TEN WR
Round 3, Pick 11 Rookie Pick

Within 24 hours, Evan from Rotoworld.com accepted the offer you see up above. We’re extremely pleased. Fantasy Football Xtreme is higher on Frank Gore than most Sites… we have him inside our Top 5 Overall heading into all leagues and formats in 2009. New offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye has made it clear that he thinks that Gore has the capability to carry the football 25 times per contest, and the team’s transition back into a run-first offense could turn Gore back into the beast that he was back in 2006. Gore, just 26, had a rough 2008 according to most, but 1,036 yards rushing (4.3), 43 receptions for 373 yards and eight total touchdowns is a solid year if you ask me. Since being a starter back in 2006, Gore has averaged over 1,700 yards per season and has missed just three games in three seasons. Our 2009 Full-Season Projections have Gore cranking out 305 rushes for 1,403 yards (4.6), 52 receptions for 450 yards and 14 total touchdowns. That places him number two overall for running backs in 2009 non-PPR leagues. That’s right, Gore is an upgrade over Turner in 2009 according to our 2009 Full-Season Projections. I know that sounds crazy coming from me, probably the biggest Michael Turner believer and supporter from last season, but Gore is a fantasy force and because he is currently undervalued, it was time to act. It was because of this wash-like swap between Gore and Turner, we were able to make the lateral move we were looking for that involved Larry Johnson, which was getting Brandon Marshall using Larry Johnson, the 1.09 and Lance Moore. This is the controversial part: Trading for Brandon Marshall.

Brandon Marshall is a player that we have been "down" on all off-season. His off-the-field issues make him a huge risk in 2009 and beyond, and he could be looking at an NFL suspension to start the upcoming season. All that said, there is a difference in buying low and selling high… What we just did was buy-low. Marshall is an extreme upgrade over Larry Johnson and Lance Moore as our flex-option, or WR2 (however you want to look at it)… and we can always trade him if need be — Many may doubt Marshall, but many still very much believe in him. That makes him an easy trade option later on down the road (if we so choose). Love him or hate him, Marshall has elite skills and given the cost that we got him for, he might be worth hanging onto. I know that part is going to cause a bit of controversy given how many times I have written "sell-high" next to his name, but again, this is a case of buying low and there is a big difference. So, our new line-up is:

Pos.
Starters
Team
QB1
Tony Romo
DAL
RB1
Adrian Peterson
MIN
RB2
Frank Gore
SF
Flex
Chad Ocho Cinco
CIN
WR1
Marques Colston
NO
WR2
Brandon Marshall
DEN
TE1
Owen Daniels
HOU
K1
Nick Folk
DAL
DST
Cowboys
DAL
Bench: Chester Taylor, Darren Sproles, Sage Rosenfels, Fred Jacksonmore

In a pure dynasty league, we’re thrilled with our new and improved line-up. This isn’t to say that Rotoworld didn’t make a great trade for their squad, and if L.J. bounces-back, they will be pleased, but we can’t complain with our new line-up to the left.

Again, we may look into making yet another lateral move using Brandon Marshall, but that will depend on the kind of value we can get back.

To view the commentary going on on Rotoworld regarding this trade, visit their blog topic here.


Read original blog post

6:41 pm
March 30, 2009


Scorpion

Hall of Fame

posts 3155

Rotoworld felt sorry for you! :D

  You basically got B.Marshall for L.Johnson, want to do me the same favor?  I'll give you L.J. for your B.Marshall!  Great job on the trade!

6:59 pm
March 30, 2009


footballjunkie81

Elite User

posts 1341

Nice Job. It's hard to imagine Turner having a better season ever again as he did in 08. Gore will def have a better year in 09 and beyond than his 08 season. Some may question Marshall, but as Scorpion stated above, you traded Johnson for Marshall in a sense and that's a good deal. Lance Moore is in a crowded Saints Offense and Nate will be the main man in TEN. I like it.

7:02 pm
March 30, 2009


FarFromHome

Hall of Fame

posts 2068

i liked reading evans blog on his site about the deal…he asked his readers for advice calling out one by name that he liked i guess…when the dude responded he said…" no go silva. please dont trade"….lol…ya i like the deal…i prefer turner over gore but they are close enough to swap LJ for marshall…

"…and on the 7th day god rested….but on that day the greatest fantasy football mind was born…his name was FarFromHome…and he was good…" Genesis 13:15

7:09 pm
March 30, 2009


Elway4Prez

Stud

posts 211

Not sure if i agree with it, but Im not real big on Gore. And Marshall just needs to figure what he wants to do with his life.  I think Lance Moore has more upside then Nate Washington, but you did get rid of LJ and thats the most important thing.

QB:M.Cassel-B.Quinn-M.Vick RB:M.Forte-D.McFadden-K.Smith-C.Benson-J.Lewis-WR:L.Fitzgerald-A.Boldin-E.Royal-B.Berrian-G.Camarillo TE:A.Gates-D.Keller-T.Heap

7:15 pm
March 30, 2009


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7821

FarFromHome said:

i liked reading evans blog on his site about the deal…he asked his readers for advice calling out one by name that he liked i guess…when the dude responded he said…” no go silva. please dont trade”….lol…ya i like the deal…i prefer turner over gore but they are close enough to swap LJ for marshall…


Evan is a good guy, and it could workout for his team given his needs and if LJ does land somewhere else to start.

It was a perfect move for our squad though and I'm very pleased with our pure dynasty line-up.

7:20 pm
March 30, 2009


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7821

Elway4Prez said:

Not sure if i agree with it, but Im not real big on Gore. And Marshall just needs to figure what he wants to do with his life.  I think Lance Moore has more upside then Nate Washington, but you did get rid of LJ and thats the most important thing.


Washington was his drop. He really had nothing to do with the deal other than our league setup requires even player for player trades.

Yea, not everyone is high on Gore, but that's what we live for here at FFX… players to point out that make us stand out from the rest. Gore is one of our top buy-low guys.

7:27 pm
March 30, 2009


filbert818

Fort Collins, CO

Stud

posts 442

i disagree with this being a good trade

you may not like larry johnson but i dont see this as being a simple swap of larry for marshall, i will break it down how i see this trade

i love burner turner and cant see how you all think that gore is gonna be the same quality player as himcouple stats for ya to prove this 18tds to 8tds, turner did have 300 less recieving yards but had 700 yards more rushing, which if this were a ppr league sure it makes up for it but he says it is a nonppr, also turner has less carries and gore has had multiple injury issues in the past

so after that i see turner as the much better rb option

lance moore vs nate washington & 3.11 – i do not feel that nate washington is anything special and he has done little to prove to be, lance moore was great last year for a player who came into the year with no expectations 79 rec, 928yds, 10TDs is a very good year, nate was 46r, 682y 3tds, not even close in that.  yes nate is going to a new team where he should be higher on the depth chart but who was #2 last year in TENN  (since he will not beat out gage) it was brandon jones who had less than 500 yards and 1 td, why would you expect any better numbers out of nate——–yes you get a pick too, but what number will that be #35, im sorry but you will not get enough talent in that spot to come close to making up the difference in points chances are about a third of 3rd round picks are busts and this is at the end of it

adv lance moore

brandon marshall vs larry and pick 1.09

yes brandon is a better producer than larry and is a much better option for a dynasty, but you do have to worry about the upcoming suspension that is bound to happen, this guy has shown that other than talent he thinks just like larry, pacman, and chris henry.  when he plays i would say he is a top 5-10wr but i personally do not want to get him on my team and i am a bronco fan, i personally think that larry will stay with the chiefs and though he will get touches taken away he will still get the powerful goal line carries which if the offense is as great as all the bowe lovers think it will be he should be able to work out to 10 tds

but you also have to give up a top 10 pick in that part of the deal which very likely will be one of the following percy harvin, hakeem nicks, or darrius heyward bay, who could all help at the wr position

adv: when he plays marshall is the better spot in this trade

overall i dont think that it is worth it to trade what you are giving up to get such a minor upgrade at the wr spot, whether you like larry or not

QB-Brees,McNabb,Kolb,MMoore,Delhomme,PWhite RB-MJD,Turner,SJax,JCharles WR-Andre,Colston,SSmith(CAR),ERoyal,HWard,RMeachem,Bess TE-Gonzo,Daniels

7:29 pm
March 30, 2009


filbert818

Fort Collins, CO

Stud

posts 442


Washington was his drop. He really had nothing to do with the deal other than our league setup requires even player for player trades.

Yea, not everyone is high on Gore, but that's what we live for here at FFX… players to point out that make us stand out from the rest. Gore is one of our top buy-low guys.


i personally do not see this as a buy low approach to getting gore

QB-Brees,McNabb,Kolb,MMoore,Delhomme,PWhite RB-MJD,Turner,SJax,JCharles WR-Andre,Colston,SSmith(CAR),ERoyal,HWard,RMeachem,Bess TE-Gonzo,Daniels

7:29 pm
March 30, 2009


Elway4Prez

Stud

posts 211

Yea i don't like how leagues require after FA period closes that you must have even number of player trades.  I just had a trade not work because it was uneven.  The rule is under discussion to change.

QB:M.Cassel-B.Quinn-M.Vick RB:M.Forte-D.McFadden-K.Smith-C.Benson-J.Lewis-WR:L.Fitzgerald-A.Boldin-E.Royal-B.Berrian-G.Camarillo TE:A.Gates-D.Keller-T.Heap

7:30 pm
March 30, 2009


WutTheCrapMan

Montreal

Elite User

posts 1271

I totally agree with dumping LJ I was down on him even last year. In return you get Marshall not bad at all. Gore for Turner is dead heap but either could drop next year, Gore with his knees and Turner with the heavy load (which may result in injury). I question the Moore and the 1st rounder for Nate and a 3rd.

That to me was not enough to weigh the trade in your favor. Moore had 10 TDs and now just might be the perminant WR2 in Orleans, the 1st is just gravy. I like Nate but he has yet to show the big year leap and now in Tennessee a team that is'nt offence friendly. If your idea was to rid yourself of LJ very good job then but I don't think you should have parted ways with either Moore or the 1st.

I would much rather have offer Ocho Cinco instead of Lance. All in all not bad, few questions but overall good for the future.

7:33 pm
March 30, 2009


filbert818

Fort Collins, CO

Stud

posts 442

——–yes you get a pick too, but what number will that be #35, im sorry but you will not get enough talent in that spot to come close to making up the difference in points chances are about a third of 3rd round picks are busts and this is at the end of it

adv lance moore


just wanted to correct myself i meant to say that i feel that only 1/3 of third round picks actually work out, not that 1/3 are busts

anything outside of top 20 is a gamle that you are more than likely gonna lose

QB-Brees,McNabb,Kolb,MMoore,Delhomme,PWhite RB-MJD,Turner,SJax,JCharles WR-Andre,Colston,SSmith(CAR),ERoyal,HWard,RMeachem,Bess TE-Gonzo,Daniels

8:05 pm
March 30, 2009


Scorpion

Hall of Fame

posts 3155

filbert818 said:

——–yes you get a pick too, but what number will that be #35, im sorry but you will not get enough talent in that spot to come close to making up the difference in points chances are about a third of 3rd round picks are busts and this is at the end of it

adv lance moore


just wanted to correct myself i meant to say that i feel that only 1/3 of third round picks actually work out, not that 1/3 are busts

anything outside of top 20 is a gamle that you are more than likely gonna lose


Gore isn't a gamble, SF improved their offensive line before the 2009 draft, Gore is an upgrade from Turner.

8:14 pm
March 30, 2009


JRMRRT

Syracuse, NY

Hall of Fame

posts 4222

Good move I like your starting lineup now better. In non PPR I have Turner #2 and Gore #5 so you only moved down 3 spots. Marshall is a top 5 or 6 WR and LJ pretty far down on the dynasty list now. Moore was on the bench anyway and the 1.09 is a total crapshoot. Your new starting lineup holds more value and will score more points. I have to say at first reading I did not like the trade but after a closer look it made total sense.

12 team, full dynasty: Schaub, Stafford, Henne, AP, J Stew, Mendy, Chester, G Johnson, F Summers, AJ, Marshall, Roddy, Colston, Manningham, Jacoby Jones, Robiskie

8:36 pm
March 30, 2009


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7821

Great comments everyone, even those of you who disagree. Solid takes.

Don't forget to comment on the articles! Those reading the articles, that don't visit the forums, could use some of your solid breakdowns, Xtremers!

9:13 pm
March 30, 2009


LS2throwed

LS2throwed

Elite User

posts 637

LJ is done, getting rid of him and getting that sort of value in return is brilliant…Lance Moore is all hype, yes he's good but he's still in a crowded WR core that is made by Drew Brees and he spreads the ball around every week, Moore could easily have 800-900 yards next year while Marshall is still a 100 catch, 1300 yard guy…I'll gladly take Nate Washington too who is young and has his best days ahead of him.

Well worth it, I didn't even factor LJ into this deal so you pimped Rotoworld as far as I'm concerned…He'll be off KC soon, not many teams will want to take a chance, those who do won't ask him to do much, but he's done anyway, WAY too much mileage, so being a dynasty I'm surprised you could dump him for this offer, I would laugh at anyone who tried to ship me LJ, good luck to anyone who is expecting anything out of him ever.

9:13 pm
March 30, 2009


Elway4Prez

Stud

posts 211

Scorpion said:

Gore isn't a gamble, SF improved their offensive line before the 2009 draft, Gore is an upgrade from Turner.


I hope your joking when you that Gore is an upgrade from Turner.  This is a non PPR so I dont even think its close.

QB:M.Cassel-B.Quinn-M.Vick RB:M.Forte-D.McFadden-K.Smith-C.Benson-J.Lewis-WR:L.Fitzgerald-A.Boldin-E.Royal-B.Berrian-G.Camarillo TE:A.Gates-D.Keller-T.Heap

9:22 pm
March 30, 2009


Brianb

Stud

posts 297

A couple of major factors to look at Turner and more combined for 28 tds and Marshall and Gore like 14 tds

Marshall had 300 more yards than L Moore this year however Turner posted 400 more yards than Gore  So when you look at those being the main moves you got totally taken on this trade.  Plus you give up #9 pick and Johnson will probably land somewhere  and play

Just my thoughts

QBs: A Rodgers Big Ben Matt Hasselbeck WRS: G Jennings, Randy Moss, Miles AUstin, Boldin, M Wallace, RBS: Chris Johnson, Tomlinson, Bradshaw and Jacobs, Slaton, Kevin Smith

10:21 pm
March 30, 2009


casper

Rookie

posts 165

 In your scoring format Turner is by far the best player in the deal.  I love Gore too but he takes a back seat to Turner in a no ppr league.  I don't even think it's close.  I think Turner > Gore, LJ/Moore/1.9 > Marshall, Washington and the 3.11 are throw ins.

I think filbert818 said it best with his post.  I don't think the production you gain at WR will surpass or even compensate the production you lose with Turner.  It is a lateral move.

I think you should have explore other options in moving LJ without involving Turner.  You can't get a better combo at RB than AP and Turner in your scoring format.

10:59 pm
March 30, 2009


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7821

LS2throwed said:

LJ is done, getting rid of him and getting that sort of value in return is brilliant…Lance Moore is all hype, yes he's good but he's still in a crowded WR core that is made by Drew Brees and he spreads the ball around every week, Moore could easily have 800-900 yards next year while Marshall is still a 100 catch, 1300 yard guy…I'll gladly take Nate Washington too who is young and has his best days ahead of him.

Well worth it, I didn't even factor LJ into this deal so you pimped Rotoworld as far as I'm concerned…He'll be off KC soon, not many teams will want to take a chance, those who do won't ask him to do much, but he's done anyway, WAY too much mileage, so being a dynasty I'm surprised you could dump him for this offer, I would laugh at anyone who tried to ship me LJ, good luck to anyone who is expecting anything out of him ever.


Thanks, LS2thorwed.

I love how there are fans on both sides of this trade. It's amazing how that can happen, that some are on the extreme end of one side and others are on the extreme end of the other side.

Gore is going to either be a home run or a second-round running back at year's end. Clearly I'm confident in banking on Gore being a home run, but I wont call anyone crazy for liking Turner, Moore and LJ better than Gore and Marshall.

Remember, I must really like Gore in 2009 to trade in my boy Turner, but it's all about value for me and I always break it down like it's a business. No favorite's with me, it's all about building a dynasty in these types of leagues and to me, this is exactly how you build a dynasty.

By the way, don't forget this is a bonus scoring league.. Gore and Turner are both great for such a format, but Marshall as well as the WR bonus is 5 points per 85 yards.

Keep the comments coming, even if you're against the trade. No one is wrong or right, this is a game of guessing and projections. I love the debate and I love that many doubt Gore in 2009.



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