| User | Post |
|
11:06 pm
March 30, 2009
|
Smitty
| | Arizona | |
| Admin
| posts 7825 |
|
|
Elway4Prez said:
Scorpion said:
Gore isn't a gamble, SF improved their offensive line before the 2009 draft, Gore is an upgrade from Turner.
I hope your joking when you that Gore is an upgrade from Turner. This is a non PPR so I dont even think its close.
Our 2009 Full-Season Projections suggest that it is an upgrade. One can't call it crazy, Gore has proven to be that good. I don't see any problem with anyone thinking Turner will outperform Gore in 2009, but I think it is tough to say it's a joke that Gore can be what he was in 2006. Our rankings have Turner No. 2 and Gore No. 3, but our projections staff see it flip flopped.
|
|
|
|
|
11:06 pm
March 30, 2009
|
Smitty
| | Arizona | |
| Admin
| posts 7825 |
|
|
We love Gore here at FFX. Before anyone calls us names, remember we had Turner as high as we did and everyone laughed at us then :)
|
|
|
|
|
11:30 pm
March 30, 2009
|
viktorz
| | |
| Elite User | posts 1210 |
|
|
This is not Gore-Turner trade , i liked this trade for xtreme ! Maybe ,this is the only way to move LJ at this moment .I hope Marshall will get only 2 games suspended  FORZA XTREME !!!
|
|
|
11:34 pm
March 30, 2009
|
Elway4Prez
| | |
| Stud | posts 211 |
|
|
Smitty said:
Our 2009 Full-Season Projections suggest that it is an upgrade. One can't call it crazy, Gore has proven to be that good. I don't see any problem with anyone thinking Turner will outperform Gore in 2009, but I think it is tough to say it's a joke that Gore can be what he was in 2006. Our rankings have Turner No. 2 and Gore No. 3, but our projections staff see it flip flopped.
I don't see how Gore can produce more then Turner. Gore was out scored by Turner by 102 pts last year. Last year Gore played 2 less games, but carried the ball 130x less then Turner. He also had 650 less yards and 11 TDs less then Turner. I can under stand if you play 2 more games will cut alot of that away but not enough to make it close. Plus i understand that he catches the ball but not as much without Martz. Turner is going to have Ryan with a whole year under his belt and White is only going to get better, so those two will take some of the heat off of Turner and open holes. They play in a dome at least 9 times next year which i believe makes a big impact. Gore doesn't even know who is going to throw him the ball and doesn't have the talent at WR to help. Even though Turner is 2 years older then Gore, Gore still has 480 more touches in his career and that includes Rec and Carries. And Gore has only played one full season in the last 4 years. So wear and tear favors Turner. So with all that I just find it hard to really compare the two.
I honestly don't even have ranked in the top 5. I just don't see him out producing AD, Turner,SJax, Clinton, or Forte.
Its all my opinion, but I would love to hear why you think I'm wrong. Always helpful info
|
QB:M.Cassel-B.Quinn-M.Vick RB:M.Forte-D.McFadden-K.Smith-C.Benson-J.Lewis-WR:L.Fitzgerald-A.Boldin-E.Royal-B.Berrian-G.Camarillo TE:A.Gates-D.Keller-T.Heap
|
|
|
12:57 am
March 31, 2009
|
Smitty
| | Arizona | |
| Admin
| posts 7825 |
|
|
It's tough for me to go to battle with ya against my boy Turner. I won't knock him, I just can't.
I can understand people doubting Gore, but the 49ers will be much improved and offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye wants to implement a physical run-first offense and he has publicly said that he thinks Gore can run the ball 25 times per game. The biggest Gore related news going around right now is that GM Scot McCloughan wants a two back system, but the last time I checked McCloughan isn't making substitution calls.
A second back is fine, Gore needs some rest here and there. When you implement a first-run offense like Raye is going to implement, you need a second back… just like Turner needs Norwood. Run-first offenses have enough carries to go around. The 49ers coaching staff also brought back FB Moran Norris. Norris was Gore's lead blocker in 2006, when he was a 1600-yard rusher. Martz let him go, but now he is back.
Turner's 2008 stats vs. Gore's 2008 stats is a decent argument, and again you're not going to get me to dog my boy Turner, but I wouldn't be so quick to just say Turner's 2008 is something that can be repeated but Gore's 2006 is something that cannot be repeated. Gore has the talent, he is only 26-27 and he has missed three games in the NFL since becoming a full-time starter. He is proven and his so called “down” season last year wasn't half bad. When I said last year that ATL would be better than most expected and Turner's line would be fine, I received hate mail for days.
Well, SF is going to be much improved and Gore will be fine. 
|
|
|
|
|
4:53 am
March 31, 2009
|
xtreme
| | North Carolina | |
| Elite User | posts 1601 |
|
|
Smitty said:
I love how there are fans on both sides of this trade. It's amazing how that can happen, that some are on the extreme end of one side and others are on the extreme end of the other side.
With so many on EACH side of the trade…it just shows that this deal was pretty even.
I also am high on F.Gore this year (and don't just look at last season stats to make a rank list this year – F.Gore is in my top 5 as well…in ANY format). I'm concerned about B.Marshall though, but I like this deal for you and think you will be pleased long-term…just hope Marshall grows up a bit!
|
|
|
6:00 am
March 31, 2009
|
JRMRRT
| | Syracuse, NY | |
| Hall of Fame | posts 4244 |
|
|
I'm more concerned about LJ than B. Marshall. LJ is like 29 and still spits in womens' faces in night clubs and he is past his prime. Marshall has time to grow up still and has not even hit his prime yet. Marshall holds more trade value as well.
|
12 team, full dynasty: Schaub, Stafford, Henne, AP, J Stew, Mendy, Chester, G Johnson, F Summers, AJ, Marshall, Roddy, Colston, Manningham, Jacoby Jones, Robiskie
|
|
|
6:51 am
March 31, 2009
|
Scorpion
| | |
| Hall of Fame | posts 3157 |
|
|
xtreme said:
I'm concerned about B.Marshall though, but I like this deal for you and think you will be pleased long-term…just hope Marshall grows up a bit!
Ditto, and this is where you win on the trade, long term. I still see it as getting rid of an aging L.Johnson with more off the field issues than B.Marshall. Even if Gore doesn't out produce Turner, it shouldn't be that big of a drop in production from the RB position. It was a steal.
|
|
|
8:52 am
March 31, 2009
|
North End Dirtdogs
| | South of Boston | |
| Hall of Fame | posts 2783 |
|
|
I like the trade as for 2009 it might be lateral, but you make out in the long run as Marshall (enter disclaimer here) should have many years of being a top WR and LJ (porbably getting suspended himself) is getting real close to a RBBC where ever he goes. I own Marshall and Gore myself and I wouldn't make the reverse trade for Turner and LJ, etc.
I think when analysing larger trades like this, you have to look at each side as a whole instead of breaking it down player for player.
|
I don't always post on fantasy football forums, but when I do, I prefer FFX.
|
|
|
8:52 am
March 31, 2009
|
Mike Ocherts
| | Spaceball 1 | |
| Elite User | posts 735 |
|
|
casper said:
You can't get a better combo at RB than AP and Turner in your scoring format.
While I like how this improved your starting lineup I think casper hit the nail on the head for me… I'm a "bird in the hand" type of guy so having two yardage & TD monsters like AP & Turner is just too good to pass up. I'm totally lost as to who I think "won" this trade…
|
QB–P. Manning|RB–Turner,Grant,Wells,Forsett|WR–Colston,Boldin,Ward|TE–Witten|K-Gostowski| DST-Den| 12 Team, 1/10 Rush/Rec, 1/20 Pass & all TDs 6| Start: QB,2RB,3WR,TE,K&DST
|
|
|
9:28 am
March 31, 2009
|
North End Dirtdogs
| | South of Boston | |
| Hall of Fame | posts 2783 |
|
|
I just read the whole discussion from the Rotoworld side of the trade. Looks like each side has their loyal minions!
By the way Smitty, Evan called you out saying you are prone to "pulling back offers". Are you gonna take that?! 
|
I don't always post on fantasy football forums, but when I do, I prefer FFX.
|
|
|
1:39 pm
March 31, 2009
|
Smitty
| | Arizona | |
| Admin
| posts 7825 |
|
|
North End Dirtdogs said:
I just read the whole discussion from the Rotoworld side of the trade. Looks like each side has their loyal minions!
By the way Smitty, Evan called you out saying you are prone to “pulling back offers”. Are you gonna take that?!
Ha. I guess I am considered a trading nut in most of these leagues, but that's just how I roll. If we talk the talk here and make bold predictions, we have to go back it up. That's what I do and that's why I trade so much. I love trading into up and coming players that we hype up here at FFX. Just look at what Turner bought us…
Addai and Edwards are huge buy-low guys for me this year and I acquired them both in our other Dynasty Expert League.
We may be a bit Xtreme, hence the name of the Site, but we at least walk the walk.
Nice commentary so far, everyone. You guys do a great job breaking down such trades.
|
|
|
|
|
1:48 pm
March 31, 2009
|
hawk12
| | |
| Rookie | posts 179 |
|
|
I think you got two very upside players, for a heavy price. But IMO it was worth it in dynasty, you definately got two nice younger studs for one, and collateral… very nice collateral but no real studs, just role players.
Trying to break out the trade I see it like this:
1 – I hate the idea of giving up Turner, and not so sure you 'bought low' on Gore. More like a swap on perceived value for 18 month younger RB… not good or bad, IMO. (BTW, I own both in a similar 'Bonus' league and Turner is just deadly, you must expect return to greatness from GORE!!)
2 – I do like giving up Moore (product of system), 1.09 (maybe hits, mabe misses) in a package with LJ – getting in return for a very talented, very young, in a relatively good situation overall top 5 WR.. Just because he's a blockhead, don't let that fool you, Randy Moss was the same was for a long, long time, all through college and into the pros- Randy went to FL St and Notre Dame before Marshall, before Minny, Oak and NE – he was only great at half of those places, Marshall, Min and NE – 3 of his last 4 stops… and I think that's what you just bought yourself, the next Randy Moss before he's matured. Marshall will hit real big some years, and should still be top 15-20 on down years – for the next 10 years!!
Nicely done, it should be interesting to see this one play out over a year or two, as I see you getting tow studs for one, and role players (in their current value/stage of career)
|
12 Team PPR Dynasty QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, TE, Flex
Brees MJD R Brown R Grant AJ Steve Smith Braylon L Moore D Bess O Daniels
10 Team (keep 2)QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE
2008 – Peyton Turner Gore DeAngelo Calvin Steve Smith Coles D Clark
|
|
|
3:51 pm
March 31, 2009
|
Simotron
| | |
| Stud | posts 253 |
|
|
hawk12 said:
Just because he's a blockhead, don't let that fool you, Randy Moss was the same was for a long, long time, all through college and into the pros- Randy went to FL St and Notre Dame before Marshall, before Minny, Oak and NE – he was only great at half of those places, Marshall, Min and NE – 3 of his last 4 stops… and I think that's what you just bought yourself, the next Randy Moss before he's matured. Marshall will hit real big some years, and should still be top 15-20 on down years – for the next 10 years!!
Hmmm. This is why I like reading this site. I've been thinking about trading away Marshall…but this seems pretty spot on. Natural Talent can not be trained. Right and wrong can. Gives me some thinking to do before trading away Marshall.
|
|
|
5:20 pm
March 31, 2009
|
BigtimeFootballJunkie
| | |
| Stud | posts 406 |
|
|
I love this trade, You pulled it off fast.
In the market of Buying low and Selling high. I think you are making some great moves, Yes Marshall will probably be suspended the first half of this season, But in a dynasty format. He is a true WR1 for a long time if he keeps his head straight. Bought Low
Gore probably will not out-produce Turner like numbers this year, But is still another great player at 25 years old in a dynasty format.
The jury is out on Nate Washington, check back week 3 preseason.
Gave up 1.09 and Turner only losses IMO
L. Moore rolled up those numbers while Colston sat watching with a broken thumb. I don't know what his numbers were like after Colston returned, But I doubt he can produce another season like last year. So again, IMO you sold high.
How could I forget LJ 
All in all, I think Xtreme made a great deal. Nice Work!
|
 |
My All-Time Greats
|
|
|
|
5:28 pm
March 31, 2009
|
Smitty
| | Arizona | |
| Admin
| posts 7825 |
|
|
Simotron said:
hawk12 said:
Just because he's a blockhead, don't let that fool you, Randy Moss was the same was for a long, long time, all through college and into the pros- Randy went to FL St and Notre Dame before Marshall, before Minny, Oak and NE – he was only great at half of those places, Marshall, Min and NE – 3 of his last 4 stops… and I think that's what you just bought yourself, the next Randy Moss before he's matured. Marshall will hit real big some years, and should still be top 15-20 on down years – for the next 10 years!!
Hmmm. This is why I like reading this site. I've been thinking about trading away Marshall…but this seems pretty spot on. Natural Talent can not be trained. Right and wrong can. Gives me some thinking to do before trading away Marshall.
Again, as I always say, and prove given I just traded away my favorite player of all time… it's all about value. Not trading Marshall, trading Marshall… do not set anything in stone, it's all about the offers on the table and the upgrades that can be made.
I still advocate that Marshall owners sell-high. You WILL NOT find an entire league down on this guy – You just won't! You will either love him or absolutely hate him, but at least 30% (guessing) of all leagues will be itching to get him into their line-ups. He is a PURE talent that can't get his life in order. Many will take chances on him, so selling high is advised if you can pull off a deal that gets you more value than you're trading away.
Again, I traded Turner. Why would I? Because you have to treat it like a business. You're a GM and you're paid (you're hoping to win your league's first place prize) to build a winning team. Gore is a top 5 talent to me and so is Turner. So to make a lateral move such as getting a Marshall type talent in exchange for an aging LJ and a sell-high talent in Moore, I decided to make the lateral step given my faith in Gore. It's a downgrade for me to this other owner, as he thinks he is getting a huge upgrade at RB… that's fine with me. I could be wrong, but I am counting on Gore and believe in him. If I can make that owner think he is making a huge upgrade, I should be able to get more back on the other end of the trade… this is where you really can build a dynasty. Find players like Gore that you believe in… attack and then upgrade in other areas.
Another great example:
I like Braylon Edwards. Some do not, which is great for me. If I own Reggie Wayne, but I believe that Edwards can be just as good, I am going to go to the Edwards owner and try to get Edwards and some for Wayne. It's all about value. An example:
Edwards/Addai
for
Wayne/Thomas Jones
This is how I've built the team below:
Tony Romo, Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore, Marques Colston, Brandon Marshall, Chad Ocho Cinco, Owen Daniels
You have to get creative with your trades and this lateral move strategy is one of the best ways to slowly gain extra players you shouldn't have.
|
|
|
|
|
3:59 pm
April 1, 2009
|
Smitty
| | Arizona | |
| Admin
| posts 7825 |
|
|
We created some Video Trade Advice on this issue.
|
|
|
|
|
3:26 pm
April 3, 2009
|
Starstruck
| | Oklahoma | |
| Stud | posts 422 |
|
|
Elway4Prez said:
I don't see how Gore can produce more then Turner. Gore was out scored by Turner by 102 pts last year. Last year Gore played 2 less games, but carried the ball 130x less then Turner. He also had 650 less yards and 11 TDs less then Turner. I can under stand if you play 2 more games will cut alot of that away but not enough to make it close. Plus i understand that he catches the ball but not as much without Martz. Turner is going to have Ryan with a whole year under his belt and White is only going to get better, so those two will take some of the heat off of Turner and open holes. They play in a dome at least 9 times next year which i believe makes a big impact. Gore doesn't even know who is going to throw him the ball and doesn't have the talent at WR to help. Even though Turner is 2 years older then Gore, Gore still has 480 more touches in his career and that includes Rec and Carries. And Gore has only played one full season in the last 4 years. So wear and tear favors Turner. So with all that I just find it hard to really compare the two.
I honestly don't even have ranked in the top 5. I just don't see him out producing AD, Turner,SJax, Clinton, or Forte.
Its all my opinion, but I would love to hear why you think I'm wrong. Always helpful info
Its actually closer to a 300yd difference when you factor in Gores recieving yards. I recently made a trade in which i recieved gore for turner and i asked myselft a couple of questions before making the deal.
1. Did i feel that gore had what i considered a down year(missed two games, a pass first off again)-YES
2. Is he more likely to improve on last years numbers(return of a run first offense)-YES
3. Is turner more likely to improve on his numbers(its possible, but not likely in my mind)-NO
4. Is it more likely that turners TD's will decrease(17) and gores will increase(8 total) than they are to stay the same or vice versa-YES
After answering these questions it is a very close race and i think its safe to say that gore is going to get an increase in carries next year. In the end it came down to which one you wanted or what else could you get that would give you a reason to move turner and acquiring Marshall was getting a major “something else” in smittys deal
|
|
|
|
Fantasy Football Forums
blog post
Print this Post 
