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Day after the NFL Super Bowl EXPERT Mock Draft

UserPost

10:12 am
February 20, 2008


Adam Lasik: FantasyFootballWhiz.com

Rookie

posts 11

Joe and I either think alike, or he read my article last year on the myth of the RBBC. :)

11:29 am
February 20, 2008


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7825

Adam Lasik said:

Joe and I either think alike, or he read my article last year on the myth of the RBBC. :)


Like I always say, you can't give up on RBs just because you had bad luck with them the year before. The odds are not in your favor of fielding a all around solid squad if you wait on RBs… it can be done, but the road to victory is an easier one. I talk about this when talking about LenDale White in our recent article relating to this draft.

1:03 pm
February 20, 2008


Joe FootballDiehards

Rookie

posts 9

Adam Lasik said:

Joe and I either think alike, or he read my article last year on the myth of the RBBC. :)


LOL. I did an article last year on Fantasy Football myths for the Fantasy Football Draftbook magazine and this was one of many myths presented and then debunked. It's nice to see others presenting on this topic as well.

I can see heading to WR early and often in a PPR league as you can (hopefully) grab a decent RB2 later in that scoring format, but this was not a PPR draft.

1:48 pm
February 20, 2008


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7825

Joe FootballDiehards said:

Adam Lasik said:

Joe and I either think alike, or he read my article last year on the myth of the RBBC. :)


LOL. I did an article last year on Fantasy Football myths for the Fantasy Football Draftbook magazine and this was one of many myths presented and then debunked. It’s nice to see others presenting on this topic as well.

I can see heading to WR early and often in a PPR league as you can (hopefully) grab a decent RB2 later in that scoring format, but this was not a PPR draft.


I think I read your article in the mag. It was solid, Joe.

2:18 pm
February 20, 2008


kethnaab

Hall of Fame

posts 2186

In the spirit of the outstanding discussion here at FFX, I bring you the following Devil's Advocacy

:)

From
March 2007 Top 20 Running Backs

The player, and whether FF owners got the expected value:

1) LT – yep
2) LJ – nope
3) Shaun Alexander – nope
4) Steven Jackson – nope early, yep later
5) Willie Parker – nope
6) Brian Westbrook – yep
7) Laurence Maroney – nope
8) Rudi Johnson – nope
9) Willis McGahee – mostly
10) Clinton Portis – yep

11) Joseph Addai – yep early, nope later
12) Reggie Bush – nope
13) Frank Gore – yep
14) Ronnie Brown – nope
15) Chester Taylor – nope
16) MJD – nope
17) Cedric Benson – nope
18) Thomas Jones – nope
19) Adrian Peterson – yep
20) Travis Henry – nope

We're look at less than 50% success. This is NOT a knock on FFX. With few exceptions, other fantasy sites had most of these guys listed as being the top backs. Heck, 17 out of those 20 were MY top 20 RBs, and I could've had a computer draft for me just by plugging in my top 20 RBs and picking whomever was next on the list. WRs and QBs weren't even a consideration for me.

The point isn't that "RBs don't really produce as much anymore". The point is that we don't know who the hell will get the carries and who won't, due to injuries and RBBC.

Joe FootballDiehards said:

Last year 6 RBs carried the ball 300 times, 12 RBs carried the ball 250 times and 17 RBs gained at least 1000 yards….But is there any doubt that people like Larry Johnson, Ryan Grant, Ernest Graham, Marion Barber or Ronnie Brown would have gone over 1000 yards if they had either not been injured or were used appropriately from the start of the season?

But that's kinda the point! Who in sam's hell expected Earnest Graham or Ryan Grant to produce? Aside from their mama's, no one even knew they played in the NFL, and it's not like they were alone. Selvin Young WHO? Andre Hall WHO? Aaron Stecker WHO?

IF MBIII and Maroney had been allowed to carry the rock all season, sure they would've produced. But they weren't and they didn't. If Ronnie Brown and LJ were healthy, they would've produced. But they weren't, and they didn't (overall)

Edge was mostly left for dead and Fred Taylor and Jamal Lewis…seriously, did anyone else have these guys projected to be "top 20" material?

Heck Justin Fargas, Brandon Jacobs, Selvin Young, DeAngelo Williams, Kenny Watson, and even RON FRICKIN' DAYNE outproduced guys like LJ, Shaun Alexander, RudiTravis Henry, Cedric Benson, Rudi Johnson and Ronnie Brown.

4 of the top 10 fantasy producers (non-QB) during 2007 were WRs.
9 of the top 20 fantasy producers (non-QB) during 2007 were WRs.
13 of the top 30 fantasy producers (non-QB) during 2007 were WRs.

Joe FootballDiehards said:

2007 was the first year that what people talked about happening for the past few years actually happened.


In my opinion, last year was a one-off year and not the beginning of a trend. There are plenty of good RBs to be found, so those who head for WRs early do so by choice and not because they are forced to due to lack of RB production.


an excellent observation. You may very well be correct that 2007 was an anomaly.

I'm still not convinced RB/WR is the way to go, but I have to admit, as a die-hard "RBs win championships!" supporter, my stance is weakening substantially.

excel-loving statwhore

2:33 pm
February 20, 2008


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7825

kethnaab said:

Heck, 17 out of those 20 were MY top 20 RBs

In an interview on Russ Bliss' Fantasy Radio Show, I talk about this with him.

kethnaab said:

The point isn’t that “RBs don’t really produce as much anymore”. The point is that we don’t know who the hell will get the carries and who won’t, due to injuries and RBBC.

You can argue this with last year's disasters, but you're argument is things will stay the same. Those that believe that the RB position will continue to produce like it always has (Adam, Joe, myself) will argue that you shouldn't give up on the position just because you landed the wrong ones.

I understand your argument, and certainly you have good points in some areas, but last year was a HUGE ANOMALY and that won't likely happen again for a decade. Like I said in the radio interview, you could take a black marker to one of your draft results from 2007 and cross out all the top 20 busts and have very few names left.

With this topic, you're either on the side that things will be the same at the RB position as they were in 2007, or not. I am on the side that says draft RBs!!!!!

2:52 pm
February 20, 2008


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7825

I'd also advise that you stay away from risky second-round runners, like Maroney, Jacobs, etc. I actually like Jones-Drew, despite the risk there, but one could argue stay away from him until the third (where he would all of the sudden have great draft-value).

Passing on having having at least 2RBs in the first three rounds could end up being a disaster.

Again, using the DRAFT SIMULATOR

… you can still land these type of WRs in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds… so why take the gamble in drafting a back that you may not like as much in that third or 4th vs that 2nd?
3: Smith, Steve (WR)
4: Holt, Torry (WR)
5: Boldin, Anquan (WR)

… to me, it's a no brainer. Unless Moss or Brady fell way too far in the second, I go RB/RB almost every single draft!

If you could convince me that my boy Michael Turner would last to the third-round (once signed, i know he may last that far right now)… then and only then would I consider passing on a back in the 2nd.

The only other exception, I guess, would be if I had a #23 or #24 pick in the 2nd-round in a 12 team draft… because my 3rd pick is back to back basically, it doesn't matter if you go RB,WR,RB or RB,RB,WR at that point…

That's me, anyway..

3:22 pm
February 20, 2008


Adam Lasik: FantasyFootballWhiz.com

Rookie

posts 11

3:28 pm
February 20, 2008


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7825

Nice.

2007 is only going to produce some more myths!

4:42 pm
February 20, 2008


kethnaab

Hall of Fame

posts 2186

smitty

great point regarding who is still available in the 4th-5th rounds. I'd be quite happy if I ended up with a roster of WRs like that. I just wonder if this will be the year that people decide NOT to go RB crazy during the draft. I mean, the chances that QBs are going to be chosen with 1st round draft picks is getting pretty high. The talk (mythical or not) about RBBC and QB production is everywhere. Of course the art of the draft is getting the best value for your picks while filling your roster with production and depth. A large part of this is trying to figure out where OTHERS are going to pick and who OTHERS value.

How many AD owners are going to end up drafting Chester Taylor 3 rounds earlier than normal, simply because they're afraid to lose their handcuff? You'd better believe that if you draft AD, I'm going to try to snatch him up a round early just so I can maneuver for a trade with you. ;)

I also check some of the other sites for their mock drafts, and WRs seem to be flying out the door. People are drafting QBs and 2 WRs before they snatch up 2 RBs. Course, I think that's nuts, but that's just me. With the tendency toward more passing, tighter restrictions on DBs, looser restrictions on OL holding….the QBs benefit but they have to throw the ball to somebody.

Of course, the rookie draft will really affect my thinking regarding who's available. I guess it all depends upon how confident one is with their "sleepers" at both WR and RB

Anyway, I'm just babbling. I'm sure I'll change my tune 3 or 4 more times and probably end up going RB/RB/WR but who knows.

:)

excel-loving statwhore

4:52 pm
February 20, 2008


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7825

kethnaab said:

smitty

great point regarding who is still available in the 4th-5th rounds. I’d be quite happy if I ended up with a roster of WRs like that. I just wonder if this will be the year that people decide NOT to go RB crazy during the draft. I mean, the chances that QBs are going to be chosen with 1st round draft picks is getting pretty high. The talk (mythical or not) about RBBC and QB production is everywhere. Of course the art of the draft is getting the best value for your picks while filling your roster with production and depth. A large part of this is trying to figure out where OTHERS are going to pick and who OTHERS value.

How many AD owners are going to end up drafting Chester Taylor 3 rounds earlier than normal, simply because they’re afraid to lose their handcuff? You’d better believe that if you draft AD, I’m going to try to snatch him up a round early just so I can maneuver for a trade with you. ;)

I also check some of the other sites for their mock drafts, and WRs seem to be flying out the door. People are drafting QBs and 2 WRs before they snatch up 2 RBs. Course, I think that’s nuts, but that’s just me. With the tendency toward more passing, tighter restrictions on DBs, looser restrictions on OL holding….the QBs benefit but they have to throw the ball to somebody.

Of course, the rookie draft will really affect my thinking regarding who’s available. I guess it all depends upon how confident one is with their “sleepers” at both WR and RB

Anyway, I’m just babbling. I’m sure I’ll change my tune 3 or 4 more times and probably end up going RB/RB/WR but who knows.

:)


Well, I just recommend you continue to Mock Draft with our Simulator before you commit to one strategy, even the one I'm suggesting.

Again, everyone has strengths. If you're the king of finding a RB2 through a combination of late round drafting, go with your strength… but to abandon RBs early just because of last year's disaster list of busts, I just have to jump in and shed some light on that.

As for your point about WRs going early, thus maybe making you think you should go RB later because they will be there… it probably will be pretty clear what a draft will look like to a large degree (ADPs). Know your average draft positions heading into a draft and you shouldn't be thrown off too much.

Even if WRs go early, though, that doesn't mean you should go WR too. In fact, if people freak out and more WRs are taken in the 2nd round than previous years, this is EVEN MORE OF A REASON to go RB/RB… because you will be KILLING EVERYONE on draft value. If you land a RB at #18 that should go at #12 (like, let's say Lynch or Barber or McGahee)…. you're actually sitting better than if the usual # of WRs go in that 2nd-round.

No matter the flow, especially if WRs are flying off the board quickly, I go RB, RB.

Finally, keep in mind that there aren't 32 starting backs in this league… while the "every team is going RBBC fear" is another myth driven trend, each year there never are 32 starting RBs in the NFL, and certainly not even 28-30 real clear fantasy starters. This means that waiting is only putting you more at risk of having a thin backfield come mid-season, bye weeks, etc, etc. There are over 60 real quality WRs and a whole bunch of WR3s on NFL teams…

If you're very good at landing late runners, I still think it would be smart to go RB, RB… then use your drafted gems (that you will be grabbing late) to upgrade your WR spots in the early weeks of the fantasy season. RB depth never hurts, and you can often trade up later on and end up with a whole lot more in that starting line-up.

12:06 am
February 21, 2008


kethnaab

Hall of Fame

posts 2186

good points all, Smitty, especially the core basic precept of RB/RB/WR

12 teams, 2 RBs per team, that's 24 RBs. There aren't 24 quality RBs, but there sure as heck are 24 quality WRs

RB depth helps protect against injuries as well.

and yeah, I keep mock drafting. If I can land a guy like MBIII at pick 18, that's about nuts. I wouldn't pass that up.

so…when's 2008 football season start again? :p

excel-loving statwhore

12:20 am
February 21, 2008


Smitty

Arizona

Admin

posts 7825

kethnaab said:

good points all, Smitty, especially the core basic precept of RB/RB/WR

12 teams, 2 RBs per team, that’s 24 RBs. There aren’t 24 quality RBs, but there sure as heck are 24 quality WRs

RB depth helps protect against injuries as well.

and yeah, I keep mock drafting. If I can land a guy like MBIII at pick 18, that’s about nuts. I wouldn’t pass that up.

so…when’s 2008 football season start again? :p


Like I've said, you can draft 3 straight WRs and still win a league if you somehow pick up next year's Ryan Grant or Ernest Graham. That is the nature of the sport, but just always remember you can still pick up next year's Ryan Grant or Ernest Graham even if you go RB, RB …. and you can still, with that approach, have WRs close to those 3 that you would have drafted in the first three rounds (because of the depth at the position this year)… but you'd have stronger runners and more trade bait… and depth to weather through it all… you are on your way to domination!

Keep it up, kethnaab. Mock away. You're attacking it from all angles and that's gonna allow you to adapt well to any draft flow. You can win with any strategy if you make the right moves, it just comes down to what is the easiest and most proven path to victory mixed in with what you do best draft-wise.



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