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IDP for dummies

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4:35 am
February 19, 2009


kethnaab

Hall of Fame

posts 2186

1

Okay, so I figure I’ll get things started here with a little IDP intro, since a ton of people haven’t gotten into IDP.

I actually only started IDP last season, but I’ve ALWAYS been a defensive fanatic (I was one of the few people who actually could name the 89 Vikings sack beasts off the top of my head) and of course, a STAT fanatic, so this was pretty easy for me to pick up.

Anyway, there are 3 “basic” types of scoring, although there are extreme variations even within the basic types. The style of scoring is most often and most easily identified by simply looking at the points for sacks vs. the points for solo tackles.

1) Tackle-heavy – typically, solo tackles will be worth about half as much as a sack (ratio is about 2:1). Look for strong safeties, look for Cover-2 cornerbacks, and, as always, look for MLBs, ILB and WLB. DL are mostly interchangeable

2) Big-Play – typically, solo tackles are worth at most 1/5 as much as a sack. This makes guys like Merriman far more worthwhile, and makes guys like Ware and James Harrison into complete studs. OLBs like Suggs and Woodley are big in leagues like this, as are interception/pass defensed specialists. Run-support safeties like Gibril Wilson and Eric Weddle lose their value immensely, while all-around studs like Atogwe are huge. T2 MLBs like Urlacher who dropped into coverage frequently while still maintaining solid tackle numbers are also gold

3) Balanced – typically, solo’s are worth about 1/3 as much as a sack. There is more value to be had, but the safest bet is to draft your team similar to a tackle-heavy scoring league, while adding a “specialist” here and there. Guys like Woodley, who probably won’t get 80 tackles during the season have value as situational starters because their ability to put up 2-3 sacks and force a fumble or two can help win games whereas solid run support guys like Kirk Morrison will form a great foundation upon which you can build your IDP.

Variations to look for

1) Look for passes defensed scoring – some leagues leave it out, some give up to 2 points / PD. That can make an ENORMOUS difference, especially for MLBs who drop into coverage frequently in a Tampa2. This also boosts the value of T2 safeties who tend to provide more value with the additional PD scoring

2) Solo vs. assist – some leagues don’t give points for assists. This can impact the scoring IMMENSELY, and really brings the IDP scoring closer together. It almost makes drafting anyone other than a basic starter, almost silly and valueless.

3) Crazy points for interceptions. Most leagues give +1 or +2 points above sacks for interceptions. Hint – this year’s interception leader will NOT lead the NFL next season. Poor saps who drafted Antonio Cromartie in 2008 learned that lesson the hard way.

Some very VERY general value-based decisions that can help you draft

these are VERY generalized, and a are designed mostly for a balanced league

MLB > 4-3 WLB ~ 3-4 WILB > > > 4-3 SOLB > 3-4 SILB > 3-4 SOLB (exceptions, based upon scheme – see Dick LeBeau and Lamarr Woodley)

the “w” stands for “weakside”, i.e. the side opposite the TE. 4-3 defenses like Dungy’s Tampa-2 are designed so that the WLB is left wide open to pursue the ballcarrier, whereas the Strongside LBs “block” the blockers, opening up the WLB and MLB to do the pursuit and playmaking

3-4’s can produce some solid #s for the weakside as well (think Patrick Willis, James Harrison, James Farrior, and Terrell Suggs). The DL on these teams are space eaters rather than playmakers (a la a 4-3 DE like Jared Allen or Robert Mathis). Their primary job is to gobble offensive linemen, allowing the LBs to make all the plays. Wonder why a team like Pittsburgh always seems to provide an ideal situation for their LBs to excel?

Casey Hampton REQUIRES a double team. Figure a C and an OG. Aaron Smith REQUIRES a double team. Figure the RT and TE. On the other side, Keisel will do his best to gobble up the LOG. That leaves Woodley on the left side dealing with a RB or possibly a pulling guard, and James Harrison on the other side, with some poor slob LT trying desperately to get away with holding and facemasking.

Now, who is left to block James Farrior? Answer – no one, to the tune of over 100 tackles this past season.

Ideally, you look for opportunity along with position. San Francisco has hardly had a ball control offense, and as a result, Patrick willis has been a tackling machine. NORMALLY, Pittsburgh has such a solid ball control offense that their LBs don’t get a ton of tackles. This past season, the Steelers’ run offense stunk, and Farrior visited the Pro Bowl as a direct result. Guys like Jon Beason have proven themselves to be truly elite because they produce despite Carolina having an incredible rushing attack.

For DBs, it is really scoring-dependant. SS and T2/C2 corners are king, although FSs are truly coming up in value because of the switch to pass heavy offenses. Look for the rookie starters, and look for guys opposite stud corners. Nnamdi Asomugha will ALWAYS produce fantastic fantasy stats….for his starting CB teammate! Why? Because who the hell is stupid enough to throw at Asomugha? NOBODY, they throw at the OTHER CB, so he gets a ton of tackle opportunities.

For DL, it’s mostly a crapshoot. Avoid 3-4 DL and especially 3-4 NT because they typically are in charge of “blocking the blockers”. They aren’t the playmakers. 4-3 DT can have tremendous value, depending upon how they are lined up. Some defensive schemes are designed to free up a 4-3 DT against an OG 1v1, and this is a mismatch that the DT should always win (think Albert Haynesworth, Warren Sapp, and the “original King” of this type of scheme, Joe Greene)

Another thing to pay close attention to is who comes out in the nickel defense. MLB and ILB who aren’t great in coverage will have their valu decrease tremendously if they aren’t on the field during passing downs. Again, a guy like Urlacher was gold because he could cover the pass as well as play the run extremely well.

ok, well, it’s extremely late and I’m tired as can be, so I’ll stop rambling for now. :D

excel-loving statwhore

4:36 am
February 19, 2009


Smitty

Admin

Arizona

posts 7800

2

Nice.

9:25 am
February 19, 2009


tusken10

Elite User

Cincinnati

posts 1628

3

I got into IDP about 3 years ago and I wish I had this info back then!! 

11:42 am
February 19, 2009


LuvYaBlue

Stud

posts 207

4

Awesome stuff, I just started IDP in three leagues last year and learned alot.

This is a forum I will be visiting often!

Thanks for the great info, keep it coming

Keth, your dead on everything. Give more advice when your tired :)

12:26 pm
February 19, 2009


Scorpion

Hall of Fame

posts 3154

5

I read what Keth posted, and I'm still a dummy!

2:11 pm
February 19, 2009


Tavaner

Moderator

posts 14251

6

This could be a gold mine of a thread.

Know your IDP scoring system. Refer the Keth’s first post for the three basic types.
Tier your IDP players Personal preference. Here is why.
Are return yards used in your scoring? This deserves a mention on its own. IDp starters who double as returners can give you double digit points per game and if you get a returner who is used on kickoff returns and punts he could score like a WR3 or WR33. Either way returners have added value RB returners – hello Sproles/Norwood – can score like RB1/2’s.
Pay attention to how the fantasy site you use classify’s players. Demarcus Ware as a DE is one example of value too good to wait on. A DE as an LB is bad news. Peppers as a DE is top five material. If he moves to an OLB similar numbers put him at LB 30 or so.
Know the base defense your IDP players are in. See Keth’s 1st post.
Beware defensive co-ordinator changes. There have been 16 DC changes so far. Such as GB – where an attacking 3-4 will be implemented by Dom Capers. Good luck figuring out who will retain value among their LB’s, not to mention Kampman. (see point 4)
Look for 3 down IDP players. An LB/DB/DE who comes off in passing situations is a liability. You’ll need to do the research on this or trust to lists. ;) Stuff like this is included in rankings but it might change within a season.
One rookie stud emerges each year lately. Don’t reach for a top three rookie LB, just be aware of this trend. Luck is as much an ingredient here as where they land and the type of base D they play in.
Pay attention to IDP injuries during the season. Injuries cause assignments and production to change as players are asked to take on new roles.
Rookie DL take some time to develop. I pass them by in dynasty as most owners will drop them within 2-3 years.
Starting rookie DB’s get picked on. Which is another reason you can wait on DB’s.
Do your own research. Anyone’s opinion has a 50/50 chance of being right. If they are right 66% of the time you have someone you can trust…still do your own research. ;)

12:22 am
February 22, 2009


Curly

Rookie

posts 111

7

This is quite interesting.  Please continue providing infos.  Other than this forum, where would I find good IDP coverage (pre-draft and weekly rankings, strategy tips, etc.)?  Thank you.

12:32 am
February 22, 2009


Simotron

Stud

posts 251

8

I've never seen weekly rankings for IDP.  I'm not sure you could do it even.  If someone does it I would like to know…and I'd like to see their logic for it.  But with each team starting 4 DB's and 3 or 4 LBs and 3 or 4 DL's…that would be hell of a lot of work.  At least on offense there are 5 OL guys that will never score fantasy points.

12:38 am
February 22, 2009


Hambone

Hall of Fame

Ontario

posts 2345

9

Simotron said:

I've never seen weekly rankings for IDP.  I'm not sure you could do it even.  If someone does it I would like to know…and I'd like to see their logic for it.  But with each team starting 4 DB's and 3 or 4 LBs and 3 or 4 DL's…that would be hell of a lot of work.  At least on offense there are 5 OL guys that will never score fantasy points.


Both KFFL and FantasyFootball.com offer a weekly IDP ranking…not saying it's comprehensive or anything, but there ya go…

Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I’ll win a pennant every year. ~ Sparky Anderson

12:41 am
February 22, 2009


Curly

Rookie

posts 111

10

Wow!!! 10 minutes response time.  Thanks guys!

4:53 am
February 22, 2009


kethnaab

Hall of Fame

posts 2186

11

weekly changes in IDP value are commonplace.

take a look at last year, for example.

Want to fail at IDP? Ignore who your players are playing against from week to week.

Guess which player led the NFL in tackles last season by an ENORMOUS margin? I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t Jon Beason, Patrick Willis, Barrett Ruud, or DQJax.

It was whomever was playing against the Baltimore Ravens. They ran the ball nearly 600 times. Couple that with a dominant defense that stopped the run and produced turnovers, and you get a team that produces a TON of tackle opportunities. It only makes sense, right? If the other team runs the ball 45 times a game and holds the ball for 35 minutes a game, your ILB and your SS should probably get some tackle opportunities against them, right?

Week 1 – Rivers posts 9 solos vs. Baltimore
Week 2 – DQJax puts up 14 total tackles, Davis puts up 8 solos, 10 total
Week 3 – Harrison, Polamalu, Woodley and Farrior all have at least 8 total tackles
Week 4 – Bulluck puts up 13 total tackles
Week 5 – Ravens get blown out, Brackett only puts up 7 total tackles
Week 6 – Crowder puts up 10 total tackles
Week 7 – Morrison 11 solos, 13 total tackles
Week 8 – DQJax has another huge game, 10 solos, 11 total (plus a sack)
Week 9 – Demeco drops 11 solos
Week 10 – Ravens get blown out again, Pierce only puts up 7 total tackles (6 solos)
Week 11 – Akeem Jordan busts an 8/10 against the Ravens
Week 12 – Brandon Johnson has 14 total tackles, Rashad Jeanty puts up 13, Dhani Jones puts up 8
Week 13 – London Fletcher posts a dozen
Week 14 – James Farrior posts a dozen
Week 15 – Bradie James posts 10 (slacker! but he got a sack)
Week 16 – Mike Peterson posts a dozen

note the trend?

Contrast that with teams like the Detroit Lions.

Against San Fran, they held the ball a whopping 24 minutes. Patrick Willis, normally a beacon of IDP studliness, put up 4 solos, 6 total. He led the 49ers. Detroit only had 35 plays. They only put up 31 plays vs. Houston during their 19 minutes of possession time, and DeMeco had all of…5 tackles. London Fletcher, he of the 17 tackles vs. NYG, 12 vs. Baltimore, 4 games with > 12 tackles, posted a whopping 7 against the Lions in the 24 minutes the Lions had the ball.

Which DB should you start this week? I dunno, are any of them playing Arizona? If so, there’s your starter! If not, then find one who’s starting against New Orleans or Indy?

Which DL to start? Which DE is starting against Detroit/SF/Pgh/NE? Start them, but stay the hell AWAY from the DEs starting against NO, Denver, the Titans or Indy.

Matchups are HUGE in IDP, moreso (IMHO) than for offensive players. No one saw Slaton breaking 100 yards against Tennessee not once but TWICE, but you darn sure knew that Houston’s ILB and WLB would put up solid games against them.

excel-loving statwhore

2:02 pm
May 20, 2009


X

Moderator

posts 9593

12

Bumping this one back up… great post by Keth and worth reading for those who have not seen it yet.

7:23 am
May 22, 2009


BIG BEAR 85

Rookie

posts 176

13

Once you go IDP you don’t go back. It adds an entire new demension.
nooffseason.com does comprehensive pre-draft, dynasty, and weekly IDP rankings, but you have to be a member to get those rankings. Not sure how this site feels about the mention of other sites since I’m new here, but I saw that a HOF member did it so it must be ok. Some sites aren’t secure enough in their own site to actually have other sites mentioned.

I’m amazed at the amount of FF players that still have not tried IDP leagues and have no intention of trying it. If they only knew what they were missing. If you enjoy FF, then you’ll love FF with IDP’s.
This thread is good informaiton for anyone getting started

8:03 am
May 22, 2009


X

Moderator

posts 9593

14

BIG BEAR 85 said:

Once you go IDP you don’t go back. It adds an entire new demension.
nooffseason.com does comprehensive pre-draft, dynasty, and weekly IDP rankings, but you have to be a member to get those rankings. Not sure how this site feels about the mention of other sites since I’m new here, but I saw that a HOF member did it so it must be ok. Some sites aren’t secure enough in their own site to actually have other sites mentioned.

I’m amazed at the amount of FF players that still have not tried IDP leagues and have no intention of trying it. If they only knew what they were missing. If you enjoy FF, then you’ll love FF with IDP’s.
This thread is good informaiton for anyone getting started


IDP is coming around – it has just started hitting the diehard ff community, so it's only a matter of time before it catches on.  Last few years have seen a dramatic rise in IDP.  I didn't play in an IDP league until a few years ago and now about 1/2 of the leagues I'm in are IDP.

Don't worry about mention of other sites – many of them are mentioned in the expert leagues Smitty participates in and some of the guys that run those sites actually stop by to post and discuss their picks in those drafts.

8:56 am
May 22, 2009


Tavaner

Moderator

posts 14251

15

I was in a league last with with Paul (no-offseason).  Nothing but respect for him.

7:12 am
June 20, 2009


Tavaner

Moderator

posts 14251

16

bump

11:56 am
August 23, 2009


bayoublaze

Rookie

posts 165

17

Thanks to Keth for the post and Tav for pointing me in the direction of this post. This is STRONG!

12:05 pm
August 27, 2009


Packers Rule

Rookie

posts 12

18

Great job by Keth. However, I think that he may have undervalued the importance of the DL players.  I believe that it is common thought in IDP leagues that “You can always sign another DL player off of waivers”. I did a little research and, at least in my IDP league, I found that having top knotch DL  players may be even more important than having elite LB's or DB's. I checked to see what the 20th ranked player at each position scored last year and here are the results:

DL-20th ranked player scored 61% of what the top player scored

LB-20th ranked player scored 75% of what the top player scored

DB-20th ranked player scored 75% of what the top player scored

This info tells me that there is more separation between an elite player and a good player  at DL than there is at the other IDP positions.

This seems to say that, although LB's are the big scorers in IDP, a solid core of DL's is just as important due to the fast fall off in scoring among

them.

My league starts 3-4 DL, 3-4 LB and 4 DB. Scoring is 1.5-tackle, .5-assist,3-sack,6-D. touchdown, 3-fumble recovery, 3-Int, 2-forced fumble, and 1-pass defensed.

Any thought on this? 

 
 

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